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 No.11022[Watch Thread]>>11023>>11058

I am a bit embarassed to admit this but I sank 600 hours into Crusader Kings 3 and I still love the game to death. It's the best game I ever played.

Do any of you know anything outside other Paradox games that come close to CK3?

 No.11023>>11024

>>11022 (OP)
Paradox was/is the best for those type of games. Any other type of game like that is never very good, always trying to be a Civilization clone, complete with forced diversity and women.
Can't say I ever tried ck3, but I agree ck2 was one of the best video games I've ever played. Had a lot of fun ethnically cleansing Iberia of moors

 No.11024

>>11023
Thanks. I thoroughly recommend CK3 even if you have to buy it. It is very historically authentic. I am amazed Paradox is allowed to get away with depicting history objectively without liberal shit.

 No.11025

Medieval 2, not exactly the same thing but a ton of fun.

 No.11058>>11079>>11105

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>>11022 (OP)
Hang yourself.

 No.11067

only 4x game I've played a lot of is Endless Legend, which is a Civ clone with alien races

 No.11079

>>11058
How dare you, you racist nazi bigot chudACKKK!

 No.11094>>11103

anyone got tips for getting good at paradox games?

 No.11097>>11102>>11104>>11109

Why does grant strategy games remain alive as a genre when RTS are only played by men over 30 and Asians?

 No.11102>>11104>>11107>>11109

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>>11097
RTS is harder to develop and most retard devs who make new ones just make Esports trash akin to Blizzards trash games.

All modern RTS games need is big scale and a zoom option that isn't fucking stuck to ground level.

 No.11103

>>11094
Don't be a retard.

 No.11104>>11109

>>11097
Grand strategy and real-time strategy are two different genres.
>>11102
>most retard devs who make new ones just make Esports trash akin to Blizzards trash games.
I don't know how Blizzard even has any fans left when they haven't made anything good since the '90s.

 No.11105>>11107

>>11058
mod seethes at his boogeyman

 No.11107>>11108

>>11105
All you do is seethe about your own bogeymen, gaycel.

>>11102
The problem is not the devs in this case, but simply that before RTS used to be one of the most popular genres, it ended up becoming a niche because Vidya nowadays is made with low IQ shitskins in mind.
There are hardly any people left who have the kind of interest and mind to play RTS and besides, it is a genre that already reached its peak decades ago.

 No.11108>>11113

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>>11107
>it is a genre that already reached its peak decades ago.
Sad but true, Homeworld 3 was such a fumble but it was published by Gearbox so there was no hope.

 No.11109>>11110>>11113

>>11102
>>11097
RTS is tough to develop not just because there are a lot more (literal and metaphorical) moving components but also because there are expectations for it to be competitively balanced and have a high skill ceiling for gooks to have 300+ APM
>>11104
Blizzard is pretty bad overall but Warcraft3, Starcraft 2 (Terran Campaign only), Heroes of the Storm, Hearthstone were all decent

 No.11110>>11140

>>11109
>sequel split into three to nickel and dime fans of the previous game
>decent
Nah fuck off.

 No.11113>>11115

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>11108
The glory days of RTS games were already over by the time Company of Heroes came out, but for me it's one of the high points of that era.
>>11109
WarCraft III was the beginning of the end. It was a half-assed RTS mixed with half-assed RPG elements. I forgot about StarCraft II, which was okay from the little I played of it, but I don't really see the point when the original exists.
>there are expectations for it to be competitively balanced and have a high skill ceiling for gooks to have 300+ APM
For as much nostalgia as I have for '90s Blizzard, the gookclick emphasis of their RTS games is one of the weak points for me. I think TimeGate and Relic had it right in streamlining the genre, but Z beat them all to the punch with that all the way back in 1996.

 No.11115>>11138

>>11113
I was implying that CoH was the creative peak of the genre.

 No.11118>>11160

any anons here got hearts of iron four tips?

 No.11138

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
I watched this Dune video last night. I never knew that the idea of a "Command & Conquer" series predated the first game to feature that in the title and was originally applied to Dune II. I've always thought that the Dune games deserve more credit than they get and are basically Command & Conquer games in spirit, but with that in mind it wouldn't really be wrong to consider them an actual part of the series.

I don't know if I'd know that Tiberian Dawn was originally going to be a fantasy game either. It's a bit like the inverse of what WarCraft II was first conceived to be, which was originally going to mix modern military units with the fantasy setting from the first game.
>>11115
>I was implying that CoH was the creative peak of the genre.
I consider it among the best in terms of gameplay design, although it's hard for me to go back to the vanilla game nowadays. It makes me wish there was an open-source alternative that would tackle some of the problems (like weapons teams sometimes having delayed responses to commands) and build on the original game. I don't even think it would need to be 3D or anything, especially considering what the D.O.R.F. guys are doing with the OpenRA engine.

 No.11140

>>11110
honestly the base game's terran campaign is pretty good, I pirated the rest a few years ago and was severely disappointed by how much less effort they put into the "expansions", which expand the game less than any other pc game expansion pack I've ever played
before I had played starcraft 2 I had assumed the worst blizzard had did was split the game into 3 separate campaigns, but it turns out blizzard did way worse than that, the 2nd and 3rd expansions are complete trash

 No.11142>>11151>>11160

Trying out Starcraft for the first time, and it's pretty boring. Some levels have been fun but it seems like the only way to win every map is to use overwhelming force, and hoarding units to them send in one big wave seems to beat out every other strategy. Also the pathfinding is unbearable but that's more of a modern convenience thing.

Am I missing something or is this just what RTS games are?

 No.11151>>11160

>>11142
Play Company of Heroes
It's the anti gookclick

 No.11160

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>>11118
I have a bunch of Paradox games but never actually got into them. The learning curve is too steep for me to sink any time into at this point. Sorry that I'm not any help. Are you just starting off with the game, or are you just looking for ways to get better?
>>11142
Is it StarCraft or StarCraft II you're playing?
>>11151
Seconding this. Company of Heroes features pretty small-scale battles, and there's a lot more nuance to the gameplay than most RTS games. While there are clearly some units that are more desirable than others, it's not the kind of game where tanks will always steamroll everything else. Without infantry support to back them up, even tanks can be vulnerable to enemy infantry popping up out of the woodwork to chuck sticky bombs or fire rockets at them. Infantry in Company of Heroes are a much bigger deal than they are in a lot of games, where they tend to just be your starting forces until you work your way up to vehicles or the equivalent. Cover and suppression are also highly important considerations. If you decide to place your foot soldiers in the middle of a road, they could easily get mowed down. But if you put them behind a fence, they could do pretty well for themselves. And if you put them inside a building, they would have really good resistance to small-arms fire and be impervious to being pinned down by machine guns. The downside is that they'd also be vulnerable to flamethrowers and explosive attacks. There's a lot more to consider than most games in the genre.

You might also want to try Kohan: Ahriman's Gift and crank the speed up. It's one of my favorite games, but it's intolerably slow otherwise. There's way less micromanagement involved than most RTS games, and unit upkeep costs prevent you from making only the most powerful units. The Royalists get extremely powerful cavalry, but they'll also drain your coffers unless you're able to support them. Instead of making premade units or groups of units, you build companies consisting a captain (or an assigned hero unit), the main body of the company, and two supporting units (like wizards or necromancers). Outside of combat, your companies will heal and reassemble themselves if they're in friendly territory. Killed heroes are the exception. You have to pay to reactivate them, and I think they have to be put in charge of a new company.

Maybe you'd find Z/The Zod Engine to be worth a try. You can attack with a bunch of troops at once, but if they're bunched together they'll be sitting ducks for explosive projectiles.

All three of these games lack gathering-based economies and are more involved with capturing and holding points. Company of Heroes has manpower, fuel, and ammo points, Kohan has things like mines and cities (which you can also build Civilization-style), and Z has factories that automatically spawn units over time. Kohan's economic system is a bit weird and is based around unit upkeep costs, but you get used to it.

I like StarCraft and all, but at this point it's more for the music and aesthetics than the gameplay at this point (although maybe it would be different if there was a better way to play it; I wish Stargus had gotten off the ground). The Terran music never gets old to me, and the concept of ragtag armies of roughneck space hicks taking on hordes of vicious lizard bugs is an interesting one. I've always thought the Protoss were lame though.

I was just looking up StarCraft concept art, and it's getting a bit hard to find now. It's effectively been getting memoryholed by StarCraft II artwork, but at least I've downloaded the manual now.

Hopefully you can get something out of these recommendations, but RTS games have been my favorite genre since I was a little kid and it's hard for me to think like someone who has problems connecting with them.



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